What I’m getting at is crap happens and there’s no way for you to tell when or where that is going to happen where that gun could be dropped. Well, yeah, because there are an infinite number of possibilities. That would be the same fix available to civilian owners of the P320. But the standard, barrel pointing straight up orientation doesn’t align perfectly with the direction in which the P320’s trigger pivots and the polymer frame absorbs too much of the impact anyway. Of course, strictly speaking that would be all of us… . Check out the history lesson from Tamara Keel @ View from the Porch. If I’m holding the pistol so that the barrel is horizontal and the grip is perpendicular to the ground (i.e. In the SIG, the trigger pulls the trigger bar forward. The slide comes to an abrupt stop when it impacts a hard object, but everything else in and on the gun wants to keep moving. I can't be certain as one of my P320s is on loan right now. If a gun is falling, so is its trigger. Yeah. An exploded diagram of the fire control assembly seems to indicate this is true. It actually sat almost flush in the hole. The M17’s other changes, outlined in the post here (what owners will receive if they do the voluntary upgrade), resolve the issue. Here’s the fix! The whole gun. Was there any mention of those of us who have multiple slide assemblies from exchange kits? I think I’m batting a zero. They get more perfect every gen LOL. But definitely going to wait for the current iteration to cycle out first. I asked for him to jam the trigger forward and see if he can replicate it. I’m not a Glock Fanboy I own 5 Glock but I also own a few ruger’s 45 Smith & Wesson’s a few Colt I like all my firearms that’s what America is about huge selection you can pick what you want. I am actually surprised by this. They also have a culture of continuous improvement. trigger components) continues due to inertia. SIG did show us the certificates/letters confirming the P320’s passing of a dozen or so drop tests by various government (both state and federal) agencies, law enforcement agencies, industry and safety/insurance orgs (SAAMI, ANSI, etc), militaries, etc…. I think the point here is you can drop a 1911 s*** you can use a 1911 as a freaking Hammer same with a Blog and you’re not going to get a round to go off. Thanks J-, Jeff, and Jeremy S. for the info and responses. so, i called glock support and they told me to try different ammo instead of sending it in or break it in…. #3 likely adds a few minutes, but we don’t have to do it for every drop (maybe every 1000). Never had an issue with my compact. I feel sig rushed the product out too quickly and should have taken more time in R&D and testing. GLOCK is a solid firearm. It came back with a different extractor parts set. Stay tuned. The sear housing geometry has also been changed. You have to remember H&K was the first one to the table with a polymer framed pistol and it flopped when Glock came out in 83 he marketed the hell out of that pistol design and it’s been history ever since. Joe Biden’s One-Two Punch Plan to Take Down the Firearms Industry, https://web.archive.org/web/20080604164428/http://www.thegunzone.com:80/glock/upgrade-faq.html. I’m guessing they probably will seeing how my 83 Glock 17 Gen 1 still shoots after well over 30,000 rounds through it to barrels 5 recoil spring assemblies in 45 magazines actually wore the magazines out LOL. Thankfully no FTE or FTF from mine besides a couple with cheap steel ammo. That said, I've seen issues with other folks when they don't fully seat everything in the frame. “SIG reiterated that they were always planning to roll them out in the commercial P320s soon as well.” All those parts are stopped by the parts they’re connected to which are stopped by the parts they’re connected to. It wont be in my holster. How about all the brass to face issues Glocks have? The SIG P320 Has Problems, and We Have Questions. If you want a short, crisp trigger pull then the striker (or hammer) needs to be pre-cocked or close to it. As an owner of an early model of the P238. auto, dishwasher manufacturers, (like Remington, etc) who have addressed problems with their products. I was having issues with my P320, failure to extract that started off as a single incident in a month, then increasing in frequency after. Gut your current FCU frame and install the newest components from the current XM17/18 revision. LOL. And indeed a full replacement of the trigger system seems to be the way SIG Sauer, Inc. is determined to go, according to U.S. sources which indicate that the P320 pistols to be submitted to the "voluntary upgrade" program may be retrofitted with the exact same trigger group as the M17 MHS – a variant of the SIG Sauer P320 that was officially adopted in January 2017 as the new sidearm for the … I would guess that any new P320s are using the revised parts wherever they've made modifications. Please explain? It’s a last resort safety for a moment you can’t plan for. Yes, some of the same parts, in an “upgrade” by Glock. Not using customers to test it for them. I’ve several grip modules. Like with the P365, I'm not impressed with how Sig has generally handled those issues. Once provided with adequate information (vs rumors) within days Sig figured out what the problem was and moving to make it right. The SIG rifle is a crossbreed between AR-1 and AR-18. However, Patrick R at The Firearm Blog was able to replicate the issue by striking the back of the slide with a rubber mallet. They have all of the various impact surfaces and other testing specifications on-hand. However, as clearly seen in the photos, the trigger bar is mounted over the axis of the trigger and moves at the opposite direction. Frame and slide require small modifications to fit and function with the new components (mainly, the trigger disconnect). I am a bit sleepy though, so maybe he was being sarcastic rather than saying something really dumb. I called Sig, they told me they fixed the extractor problem and it would be one in a thousand that is the problem. Yeah, I’ve been floating the idea of getting one of these for a while now, and I have to say, Sig appears to have handled this in textbook fashion. Am worried about dropping it? Even when inspecting/replacing the primer, cycling/resetting the gun, and inspecting the gun for damage after every drop, as well as repeating the tests across three samples of the gun, you can complete a standardized test in an afternoon. That pistol was the Sig Sauer P320. shoots great. I’m not sure if the thumb safety (not included as part of the voluntary upgrade) activates the trigger disconnect and therefore renders the trigger inert or if it physically blocks it or what, but I’ll find out tomorrow and let you know! Mine has only had extraction issues with cheap aluminum and steel cased ammo. How about demanding that the standards and testing methodology be changed? It has a larger indent in the end, so it is easier to push with a punch and not slip. I can be patient. LOL I think Glock new this when he designed the safe trigger with small articulating pc that hits the underside of the frame if the trigger moves without a finger pressing on it. At the first moments of the impact, the trigger bar is trying moved rearward but the trigger comes up hard against the trigger stop pin, but… The inertia of the trigger bar is great enough to flex the plastic link as though it is a spring. As pointed out in the article, take the orientation of the pistol to be in 3 dimensions. Agreed. Thanks. The system may not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction. never a malfunction. The Sig Sauer P320 9mm Gun Is 'Safe to Operate,' States Army. Usually these guns have more play there than metal-framed pistols with longer rails. I’ve been carrying a gun now for over 30 years and I’ve even sat down at a public restroom and had my 1911 come out of my leather holster and slide underneath the divider into the next stall. All testing of pretty much anything is done to some percentage of “nominal” conditions (hence the standardized tests). Sorry SIG. I will admit mine does work but………….. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. (In my XD they move in opposite directions, and in my CZ-75B they move together.) The pistol was Sig Sauer’s newest rendition […] My First Experience With The Sig Sauer P320 On a muggy afternoon about 2 years ago, I entered my local Bass Pro Shop to take a look at a new handgun a friend of mine had suggested recently received high marks. How quickly you all forget the Gen4 issues Glock had when it was first introduced (and those sorry sacks of garbage at Glock never owned up to it being an actual problem). They’re using FEA. I simply asked if the man could take his foot and Slide the weapon back across the floor to me LOL. An object at rest wants to stay that way, too. That’s where I’m landing. What is happening over at sig? Think about a perfect early 80’s television or Ferrari or microwave or power drill or whatever. So in 20 years will a non-upgraded 320 be worth more than one that’s had the upgrade(s)? Unsurprisingly, when a gun is dropped and impacts an object at a certain orientation, the trigger’s inertia tries to keep it moving in the direction in which it has been intentionally designed to move. Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Dawson Precision Sig P320 Competition Fixed Sight Set - Black Rear & Fiber Optic Front at Amazon.com. If I decided I wanted a P320 this would not deter me at all. The settlement requires the … The P320 has been plagued with numerous issues since it rolled out. I sent it to Sig on their dime (ed9Ex) pricy right there. I’m happy with my P6/P225 and P245. The actual “firearm” part of the P320 is a cleverly designed stainless steel frame that sits inside a polymer shell, and accepts a slide. He takes the gun apart and the two Springs that run off of the bolt carrier look like a bird’s nest in a fishing reel that a three-year-old through. The gun DID pass basically every safety test out there, most of which include drop testing. Lets say the modified pistols still fire when dropped at that precise angle but only starting at 20 ft. Is that a normal set of conditions? Another problem is that if we’re really “dropping” the gun (i.e. Below, we’ll answer why this is the case and present SIG’s solution. Please, if you have a crystal ball or anything that might help. Sig Sauer’s underwhelming response so far has been to offer customers a free “voluntary upgrade,” while vehemently insisting that the weapon is safe as-is. If we test at 4 different heights, we still only have 259,200 combinations. California’s microstamping law went into effect in 2013. Although I might hold off for the upgraded models, I wouldnt turn my nose up at a really cheap current one. Though they likely didn’t go through the CA-mandated process (since they couldn’t comply with CA’s microstamping requirement, anyway), CA would require them to go through a “DOJ-Certified Laboratory”. California’s microstamping law went into effect in 2013. My new P320RX has a plunger that, if I'm remembering correctly, doesn't look anything like the one from the first revision. Glock proved the 1911 club wrong and at some point someone is going to definitively out due Glock. As we posted earlier, SIG announced a voluntary upgrade program for P320 owners. I did have one a few years back. Safe action on the Glock and thumb safety and grip safety on the 1911 along with a firing pin block on the model 80 series pistol. Or does Sig merely design and build to existing, known customer and industry specifications? Not at all infeasible with some automated test equipment. The military testing and evaluation of this handgun will be the best thing that ever happened to it. In particular any angle that the inertia of a fall and sudden stop could effect the firing mechanism in this way. We KNOW the heavy trigger shoe results in rearward travel on impact and the light trigger shoe does not. Sig Sauer did subsequently make unspecified changes to fix this issue in the M17 and M18 pistols. There was a visible difference between the two extractor plungers. After reports from New York law enforcement of two unintentional discharges. At some point, I will send it in. P.S. I remember those days brother I had a 1911 and I had a Glock back in 1985 actually I got the 1911 and 75 and the Glock in 85. Still waiting on bcg for mcx recall three months later and I waited six months to send it in hopes that I wouldn’t be stuck in line. The company fixed the … Mine had failure to extract issues that I had to send it back in for repairs. It started having extraction problems so I sent it in. I suspect many P320 owners are going to be happy to get a free “Gen 3” XM## class trigger group upgrade that undoubtedly will not only pass the U.S. safety standards but exceed them. We need to inspect the primer after each drop (or, at least, periodically) to ensure that it wasn’t damaged or deformed such that a “real strike” (maybe the very next drop) will fail to set it off. They did not say that. Sincerely. We all know the G17G2, G19G2, G17G3, and G19G3 are the only true Glocks and are perfect and don’t need anything changed (except for sights, trigger, and springs, barrel, etc), and any other handgun is heresy! I can see why he’d be confused just looking at the photo. LOL when you sit on the couches it sounds like you’re crushing up a Publix plastic bag. When I feel the need for another SIG it will not be a striker-fired model. Sig 80% Fire Control Unit. I’d really like to see side-by-side photos of the old and modified trigger group parts. My advice is try to find a friend that has multiple Brands and calibers and go with him or her to the range and try a bunch of different pistols see what you like and don’t like and limit it down from there. Exactly, there’s some people on here though that apparently didn’t read the whole article and they think that it falling on its back is causing the trigger to completely make the weapon fire as if you were pulling the trigger when in fact it’s a two-part problem. I still haven’t been sent a shipping label for my Ruger Mark IV…. Glock is hardly perfection, even the gen4 had it’s share of issues when it first came out. There always exists, too, a possibility that a drop on the back of the gun causes the trigger’s inertia to effectively pull the trigger. Sig P320 X-Carry. Well if that’s the case then my decision on the “upgrade” is becoming easier. I explained the question of different masses and travel directions in another comment above. House that Gaston built? I’ve never dropped it but I have dropped other guns. To all those hating/bashing SIG, how about redirecting your venom and energy at the US and military safety standards that these guns PASSED? While significant trigger travel was clearly visible on the current model, nothing but a quiver was visible on the new version. 360*360*360 is 46,666,000 combinations. Just like Remington with the Remington 700 and the Walker trigger they knew that trigger wasn’t being installed and safety checked correctly and they took it to the attorneys and they figured out that one or two people shot per year with lawsuits was cheaper than recalling something like 700,000 rifles at the time. It also protruded, kind of like this example does. (cerealized). Although SIG was already working toward introducing the MHS-inspired Enhanced Trigger to the P320, this -30deg drop issue has hastened their effort. got a glock 42. it was the worst jamming POS gun i have every had…. One wonders why someone would be wearing plate armor in such a situation. As soon as the Seer disconnects from the striker the firing pin flows full word and ignites the primer which ignites the powder which puts the bullet out the barrel. your marketing hype and product proliferation billboarding your name on all things gun has sucked resources from your quality control department. The other 180 degrees is the “back side” of the first 180, and the final 360 Jeremy included would just represent about the axis the impact happens along and wouldn’t change anything. Thanks but I’m going to stick with the house that Gaston built. I gunsmith at a shop that has arranged as well and I can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen drop firearms in there and the good thing about the Sig is it appears if you drop it it only shoots the person who dropped it because of the awkward angle it puts a bullet right back at you LOL. ("Small" and "large" grips are listed as "out of stock".) I’m shocked that there is nothing on the Sig website about any of this. On and on until the part in question is the slide hard against the solid object. I don’t think anything is unique in this regard with the P320. SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. Mass is reduced by 34%. Sig was trying to avoid losing the Army contract and roll the dice that nobody would drop one at that goofy angle. He did exactly that and put two recoil springs in a gun with the AR-18. I want mine fixed if there is a problem. But they make only one operating system if I’m correct. Thanks for the physics input. Thankfully I live my life one inertial frame at a time, constantly in an inertial frame of reference and highly wary of those fools in a non-inertial local rest frame. That’s saying something considering TTAG’s redneck test resulted in two discharges in three drops. I waited almost 4 years after its release before buying a P938. I tried several different brands of ammo, they all did it. Maybe a G43 down the road… I just won’t be able to look at it or show it off to my buddies – the red headed step child. John, are you going to place your life in the hands of the testing done by the government? I understand the physics behind it, and always thought other guns with lighter triggers would be prone to this. … but I still can’t understand how this gets out of the factory with such a fault. That’s simply because most people didn’t read the entire article above. Each of those dimensions has 360 degrees of freedom. I was having issues with my P320, failure to extract that started off as a single incident in a month, then increasing in frequency after. I’m a sig fanboy and a glock fanboy. That is, if we dropped from 4 feet (0.5 seconds), 8 feet (0.71 seconds), and 16 feet (1 second), the average time just to fall is about 0.74 seconds per drop. High-speed video (and reasonable postulation) showed other instances where the trigger moved far enough to clear the striker block but the striker did not slip off of the sear, and therefore the P320 also did not fire. When we asked about the P320 drop safe issue that August, SIG SAUER told TTAG they had modified the military model’s trigger to enhance the trigger pull and eliminate the “click” about which many users — including the U.S. Army — had complained. i saw stuff all over the internet about it jamming and some people would get glock to send it in and replace parts. Intuitive process should lead to “non-standard” drop test angles being recognized and tested. Sure, there is an impact velocity at which the trigger shoe’s inertia would overcome the entire 5.5 to 7.5 pound trigger pull weight and actually release the striker. No worries brother we’re just kicking it late night old school style LOL. I dont think Ive had a single problem out of the thousand or so rounds I put through mine. Maybe I’m paranoid, but I don’t think that they necessarily showed you that their fix for existing guns worked. Mass in motion (relative to the local rest frame) has momentum, which is proportional to the mass’s velocity in the local frame. Oh, come now! •  The impact jars the internal components, tests the limits of the fit between chassis and slide, and the striker slips off the sear. Sig p320 takedown issue fix Brand new 320c had this 2 may 2017, push the rod down. SIG brought us into their testing facility today and demonstrated that three upgraded P320s were all functional and fired properly. Thanks but I thought they said the frame was flexing as well causing the Seer to come off the striker and letting it go forward I’m pretty sure that’s what they said. Add in the distance dropped and to test completely becomes a heck of a long time. But I agree with you 100%. As also pointed out elsewhere, we can visualize “drop orientation” as if the pistol was inside a transparent globe (think “Earth”). So they only need the FCU/chassis to fix the issue? Second, one of the other axes only has 180 degrees of important info. I have about 500 rounds with my used SIG p320c. @James Earl Hoffa Not just the chassis, the actual plastic part you hold onto. You guys are failing to realize that there are two problems going on simultaneously with this pistol number one when it’s dropped on its back on the beavertail and the slide the trigger only moves very little rearward. I’ve got like 10 polymer framed guns some Smith and Wesson some Glock and I wonder how the polymer is going to hold up saying a hundred years I wonder if they’ll hold together. Either way, has anyone tried this with a thumb safety equipped version? “If trigger shoe and trigger bar ARE fighting each other for dominance…” That would be a direct test of the theory put forward in this article. And inertia. I want mine fixed if there is a problem. 2. I have no doubt about that, given that the tests I’ve seen (NIJ, SAAMI, California) specify only 6 orientations – none of which are “negative 30 degrees so it impacts on the back end of the slide”. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. As far as the age/manufacture date goes, it's listed on a sticker on the box. Well i bought it used and had already fired several hundred rounds thru it. I've got 500 rounds through mine. The thing you call a trigger shoe is called a trigger. I recently bought a NIB Sig p320 compact. Not so much, you see, I was taught that their is NO firearm that is safe to drop, ever, in any situation, in your lifetime, and the next, period. The “standardized tests” (e.g. Such capabilities have existed for a very long time. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service.After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Each of those dimensions has 360 degrees of freedom. However I won’t pick a firearm that isn’t drop safe in a handgun 99% of all rifles and shotguns are not drop safe but handguns especially defensive handguns that are going to be used as a military sidearm or a police Duty gun or a concealed weapon permit holders concealed carry gun yes those guns need to be drop safe. And it almost certainly does, given CA’s standard. Thanks for playing. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.

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